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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2025-04-08 Zoning Board of Appeals Minutes Approved Town of North Andover ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Members Associate Member Michael T. Lis., Chair �� �%, Matthew J.Ginsburg Laura Craig-Comin, Vice-Chair Zachary J. Hachey Frank J. Killilea, Clerk Melissa Rutherford James M.Testa Zoning Enforcement Officer Alexandria A. Jacobs, Esq Paul G. Hutchins MEETING MINUTES Date of Meeting: Tuesday, April 8, 2025 Time of Meeting: 7:30 p.m. Location of Meeting: Town Hall, 120 Main Street,North Andover, MA 01845 Signature: Terri MacNeil 1. Call to Order called at 7:30 p.m. Members Present: Michael T. Lis, Laura Craig-Comin, (Frank Killilea—Recused,but present), Alexandria A. Jacobs, Esq., James T. Testa and Melissa Rutherford Staff Present: Terri MacNeil Gavel given to: Michael T. Lis Pledge of Alliance 2. Acceptance of Minutes—Request to Continue A. Jacobs made a motion to accept the minutes for the October 8, 2024; November 19, 2024; December 10, 2024; January 14, 2025; and March 11, 2025 meetings, motion was seconded by L. Craig-Comin, M. Lis, aye, J. Testa, aye, M. Rutherford, aye. 3. 922 Dale Street(Continued from March 11, 2025 Meeting) Dr. Gonsalves is at the podium speaking for the Applicant. He thanked the Board for allowing the continuance for him to make adjustments. The Applicant has voided out asking for a Variance regarding the housing and the setbacks and the Applicant has put the house completely within the required setback. The continuance was for the wetlands which we have 5.3 acres to begin with, was divided into two lots the existing lots with old farmhouse which is 3.3 and has the necessary amount of dry land at over 75%. The second lot which has 2 acres has only 71% of the required dry land to put a house on it and that is due to the fact that there is a 100 foot setback and here is a stream in the back that took a lot of space that we have. The specific place for the house and that portion of the lot where it would go is on very high ground and quite a distance from the area of wetland and the Applicant believes it would not impact things. The Applicant is asking the Board for a variance for that 3%that we are short. Notices and agendas are to be posted 48 hours in advance of a meeting excluding Saturdays,Sundays,and legal holidays.Please keep in mind the Town Clerk's hours of operation and make necessary arrangements to be sure that posting is made in an adequate amount of time.A listing of topics the Chair reasonably anticipates will be discussed at a meeting are to be listed on the Agenda.Note:Matters may be called out of order and not as they appear in the Agenda. Pagel of 21 Town of North Andover ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS M. Lis—I want the Applicant to know before continuing that there is a serious of events. There are only 4 eligible voting members available. J. Testa was not at the prior meeting and was not caught up. A super majority must approve, so all voting members would have to agree. The options to the Applicant, the Board can discuss the changes and if anyone has comments at that point the Applicant could decide if they would like to continue or proceed to a vote then. Dr. Gonsalves—stated that he would like the Board to discuss the changes. The Board discusses the variance. The Board appreciated the Applicant coming back with the few alterations to bring back the 2.7 feet they were looking for. A question was asked about the distance from the Wetlands. The property is well outside the 100' buffer. No public comment. M. Lis — Asks the Board if everything has been covered before he gives the Applicant the choice of where to proceed. The Board states yes. Dr. Gonsalves—agrees to go to a vote. L. Craig-Comin reads the Notice. L. Craig-Comin—I move to approve the variant pursuit to the Town of North Andover Zoning Bylaws Section 195-7.1(A) Contiguous buildable area ("CBA") in the R-1 Zoning District for the purpose of constructing a single-family house on a vacant lot contingent upon the Planning Board's approval subdividing the lot into two parcels. Specifically,Applicant has requested CBA needing a relief variance of 3,457 square feet(the CBA proposed is 61,883 square feet or 71% of the total lot area and the CBA required is 65,340 square feet or 75% of the total lot area). Referencing: (1) Certified Plot Plan prepared by Greenman-Pederson, Inc., dated January 20, 2025; and (2) Revised Certified Plot Plan prepared by Greenman-Pederson,Inc. dated, March 24, 2025. A. Jacobs— seconded M. Lis, aye, A. Jacobs, aye, L. Craig-Comin, aye, M. Rutherford aye. M. Lis—congratulates the applicant for the variance. 4. New Public Hearing of 45 Third Street L. Craig-Comin reads the notice. Notice is hereby given that the North Andover Zoning Board of Appeals will hold a public hearing at the North Andover Town Hall at 120 Main Street, North Andover, MA on Tuesday, April 8, 2025 at ZBA Minutes for April 8,2025 Page 2 of 21 Town of North Andover ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS 7:30 p.m. to all parties interested in the petition of Prime Builders,LLC/Ryan Grasso for property at 45 Third Street (Map 20,Parcel 3),North Andover,MA 01845 in the R-4 Zoning District. The Applicant is requesting a Special Permit pursuant to Town of North Andover Zoning Bylaws Section 195-4.3.3) the conversion of an existing dwelling to accommodate not more than five (5) residential units, by special permit from the Zoning Board of Appeals in accordance with Section 195- 10.7 of this Bylaw and Subsection N(4) of this Section. Specifically,Applicant is requesting to build an addition for two (2) housing units and conversion of an existing single-family dwelling for a total of three(3)residential units. Application and supporting materials are available for review at the office of the Zoning Department located at 120 Main Street, North Andover, MA on Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday from the hours of 8:00 a.m.-1:00 p.m., and Friday from the hours of 8:00 a.m.-11:30 a.m. Brian Vaughan from Smolak and Vaughan on behalf of the Applicant and Ryan Grasso the principal and owner of the LLC that owns the property,Prime Builders. M. Lis—asks Attorney Vaughan to walk them through what they are proposing. Brian Vaughan—Attorney for the Applicant, summarizes the Applicant's request for a Special Permit, converting one unit into 3 units. The Board states that the Applicant could build 5 units, but are only building 3. Letters were received by the Board, some stating that the Applicant was building 5 units. The zoning allows for a special permit to permit up to 5 units, you can get a permit for up to 5 units. The Applicant could build something that fits within the footprint and has as many units or fewer, but they could not do anything else. B. Vaughan—I think the one other thing that is worth noting is we have tried to accommodate more than enough parking, 10 off street parking spaces between garages and driveways,where only six are needed pursuant to Zoning. R. Grasso—I just want to make it clear that zoning under special permit,permits 5 but we thought that was obnoxious as well for the neighborhood. We wanted something that blended with the neighborhood, keeping with the character and the integrity of the existing building and the surrounding buildings so we thought that 3 was certainly more palatable and appropriate for the area. M. Lis—You are not asking for any other variances? R. Grasso—no B. Vaughan—But for the 3 family it would be a by right building,hypothetically if you wanted to make that into a single family,we could build it with no relief. ZBA Minutes for April 8,2025 Page 3 of 21 Town of North Andover ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS The Board asks a question about the driveways for the 2nd and 3rd units. The existing plan does not show these, those will need to be added. B. Vaughan—I think the question was asked if we were looking for any other variances or relief. The structure itself, if it were to remain a single family, the addition that's being put on would require no variances or relief We could pull a building permit for that. M. Lis—Before he opens the meeting to the public,he wanted the record to show that the Board received a petition with 23 signatures on it, opposing the Special Permit. The Board also received letters from Gayle Apkarian, Ed Keisling and John Nissenbaum, all opposing the Permit. The Chair asks the public when coming to the podium to speak, to keep their comments brief, under 5 minutes, and to not repeat the same points. Joanne Cavallaro, 12 Milton Street, an abutter is at the podium. A lot of these people have collectively worked together with me, so I would say I do have something to say that is longer than 5 minutes, a lot of these people had asked me to speak for them. We tried not to talk about the same thing, over and over again, however, there are a couple of other people that are talking about different things, other than what I'm talking about. The neighborhood is very passionate about this project. My neighbors and I oppose the conversion of 45 Third Street to a multi-family of three units. We respectfully request that the board deny the special permit applied for by the developer. She speaks about applying the bylaws, boundaries, use, consistency, character, the neighborhood, density, traffic. If these are unknown it cannot be determined if this project that has been presented to you is in harmony with any of these requirements. The developer submitted his application for the proposed project as meeting the requirements in the R-4 district bylaws. We are here to say that this project does not fit and is not in harmony with the criteria listed in the bylaws for which the developer is seeking relief. Taking a quick look at the Exhibit B map that was provided with the application, the map is intended to identify multi-residential property in a radius around 45 Third. The map does show predominantly multi-residential use behind Third Street and on Main Street. What you can't see is the highlighted properties on Third and headed down towards the library are two families not multi-residential, and the map also tells us that from Third Street, towards the Stevens Memorial Library, there are fewer two families and predominantly single family homes. Here is what you can't see in those numbers,the two families on Third were built as single families, except for 1113 which was actually built in the late 1800s, as a double house by a man named George Smith and was the only two family presumably until the 70s. Most special permits for two families on Third were approved prior to 1987, these projects did not impact properties, it didn't impact the streetscape, it didn't impact the density, they didn't impact the character of Third Street and that is the reason why they were approved. M. Lis—when you say it didn't impact the density, what do you mean ZBA Minutes for April 8,2025 Page 4 of 21 Town of North Andover ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Joanne Cavallaro—What I mean is that at that time, they didn't really increase curb cuts, there were not a lot of cars at that time, we had Conte Funeral Home which had fewer cars at that time coming through the area, we had fewer buses, things were just quieter, is that the wrong word. L. Craig-Comin—I was just thinking if before there were only single family houses or no houses and after there were two or three family houses by definition, that's increasing the density. So I think he was just trying to clarify. M. Lis—OK I think we need to start moving towards the end of this J. Cavallaro—OK, I'll try M. Lis—This will almost certainly be continued and if there is anything further that you would like to submit to the Board, you are welcome to do so in writing too and also come back next time An audience member stands up to speak M. Lis—you will have to come up after this person is done Audience member continues to speak M. Lis—you really can't J. Cavallaro—continues discussing single family versus multi-family home. She lists other properties who were denied a variance. M. Lis—can we allow some other folks to speak. J. Cavallaro— She asks if is there somebody that wanted to speak and if she will be able to speak again. M. Lis—this is going to go late J. Cavallaro—How long did all these plans take and everything, I feel like the abutters should have a chance A. Jacobs—We can't control the rules on when things have to get sent out and the requirements A. Jacobs—that is something that is outside of our control, so if the applicant provided the application by the deadline and things got mailed out on time, it's completely outside of the board's decision. I understand it can make it tight for an abutter, but not within our control An audience members speaks up and is told he cannot speak right now. J. Cavallaro—Asks if the abutters are allowed to ask questions, Also asks how much of what is being said important to the Board. L. Craig-Comin—all of it and we are trying to leave space for everyone and be respectful to everyone's time M. Lis—I understand that ZBA Minutes for April 8,2025 Page 5 of 21 Town of North Andover ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS L. Craig-Comin—others have indicated that they want to talk too M. Lis—If at the end of this and there are only one or two other people that want to speak then we can bring you back up here but if lots of other people are going to speak and we are here until 10:30, then I can't promise you that you can come back up J. Cavallaro—can I keep going for a little bit M. Lis—I think we are going to stop right now Audience member—can you give her one more minute M. Lis - OK J. Cavallaro—are you going to time me A. Jacobs—I'll time it J. Cavallaro—These homes are stately Victorians that have unique architecture, they are important to the Town's history. It was written as a good inland town. Many houses have the unique architecture. Although they were built 175 years ago, all of these homes look just as they did when they were built in the late 1800s and early 1900s and all the property around these homes has remained intact for well over a hundred years now with no exterior modifications that can be seen from the street and I bet you couldn't find one from the back. That is pretty remarkable and it would be wiser to not throw away an area of historic homes due to their distinctive features of architectural, cultural and history of the town. An area such as Third Street it promotes the town that is what we are looking for in the plan Third Street that makes the town a more attractive and desirable place to live and work. It's a favorite street. I'm done. M. Lis—Thank you so much Joe Cavallaro— 12 Milton Street. He talks about the 5 properties that intersect Maple, Third and Milton Street, five properties with six units today. He is concerned that if the Special Permit is allowed to move forward that opens the door for 33-35 Third Street to revisit the housing project. With an approval of 45 Third Street there is no doubt that 33-35 Third Street will become a four family. This would add two units to that intersection. His property is a large Victorian that sits on approximately a half-acre lot. This lot is broken up into three parcels. When he and his wife downsize and sell, the ad will not read beautiful maintained Victorian in the established library area. The ad will read large buildable lot with building potential for development. He states that real estate agents are contacting him asking if they are planning on selling, as there are buyers. He is sure that his neighbors with large lots as well have been getting these letters. Let's just say for tonight, my property would get approved for four units, this adds three additional so now we are up to five units on this corner. He speaks about 45 Third Street. It is a very large Victorian, the largest on the corner that sits on an acre lot, let's just say they get approved for four units, that adds three more units to this corner so now we are up to 10 units at this intersection. He next speaks of 40 Third Street, the youngest ZBA Minutes for April 8,2025 Page 6 of 21 Town of North Andover ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS owner on this corner. Their daughter is attending North Andover High School and after the traffic light is installed in front of their house, he can only assume they will sell. With the curb cut on Milton Street, they could possibly get approved for two additional units, so now we are up to 12 units. We started with 5 buildings and 6 units, now we have 5 buildings with 18 units, maybe more,but adding 12 to this busy corner is not a good thing. The developer of 45 Third Street demolished an existing pool on this property approximately a month ago, maybe longer it is still piled up in the yard, how disrespectful. I request the Board on their way home tonight drive by it and take a look at it, it's an eye sore just like 33-35 Third Street. The attorney for the developer has stated that this is one of the remaining large lots. That is incorrect. 65 Third Street, 36 Richardson, 43, 59, 99, 114, 122 Middlesex, 99 Green Street, to mention a few, all have large lots, similar to his property if not larger. This is not a resident seeking a special permit for a garage or an addition on an existing structure. This is a developer seeking a special permit to develop a housing project that will continue down Middlesex, Milton, Richardson, Green Street, throughout the library area. This is a request to triple the footprint of the existing house that sits on that property today. Not to mention that the city will lose a beautiful existing mature maple that is in front of the property for one of the driveways, one of the 10 driveways and not to mention that their neighbor will also lose their beautiful mature trees that run down the property line as the roots get cut and the trees get cut back. All has been intact for 175 years. If the bylaws are ignored, this would be the first a tipping point. Third, Milton, Richardson, Middlesex, Green Streets are fair game for the future for development in the library area which are primarily single family homes today. If you grant this, how do you say no in the future. They will all seek variances and refer to this one. An approval for this project will end the library area. This project is not in harmony of the neighborhood. Thank you. John Lyons, 65 Third Street is at the podium. My purpose is to oppose the granting of the variance, three unit housing development at 45 Third Street. Third Street has six well-kept unqualified Victorians all in a row. 65 Third Street was built in 1871, 45 Third Street was also built in the 19t" century. The locale was bountiful with trees including a cluster of chestnuts, shading the road from MacCloon's mansion to 33 Third Street. Gardens and neighborhoods had large lots and open space. Third Street is the northern border of the prestigious library area. This beautiful embodiment of the above representation is being threatened again. The neighborhood strength of mind and the town strength of character will hold the line against further incursion into this library area. The abutters to 45 Third Street convinced the zoning board not to grant a variance to an absentee landlord three or four entrepreneurs. To change the zoning of the old Nelson house, that's 33 and 35 Third Street from two family to four family. It was defeated after much hard work and for the same reasons that are given tonight. There are too many cars already transgressing Third and Maple, today it is much worse. It's a major artery to Middlesex Street compounded every morning and every afternoon by commuters, he has an audience member bring pictures to the Board, and St. Michael's parents picking up and dropping off children. In the P.M. cars are parked on both sides of Third Street right up to the Conte's driveway and the corner of Maple and Third is even worse. Cars and school buses are parked from the corner to St. Mike's and Dudley Street, even worse with cars parked from Maple to Eddie Keyslings on 9 Dudley. ZBA Minutes for April 8,2025 Page 7 of 21 Town of North Andover ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS When Conte has moderate size funeral. An audience members brings a picture to the Board of a funeral that was taken a couple of days ago. When they have a large funeral it is up to his house. Curtis Johnson, who was North Andover gas crisis project manager, was asked if they were going to put up lights. He stated that the last phase of the gas project was to figure out how to regulate the fast moving stream traffic at the crossroads. Talk about street lights you best be prepared to install one in front of 45 Third. You would have Third Street North, Third Street South, Maple Street and Milton Street. The same issue on Dudley Street, 45 Third Street, Dudley North, Dudley South and the Dudley Street parking lot. Let's not forget the school kids walking to Thompson Street and St. Mike's,just one single kid gets hurt, we will blame ourselves for not fighting harder to stop this incessant compulsion and inclination to build on every piece of open space in the town. He speaks of community character and that the intention of zoning is to preserve the character value and life force of its community and to conserve the natural assets of further generations. Our responsibility as neighbors is to reinforce that zoning. Carry out this conversion, sustain the last vestiges of Victorian homes in the area and halt these inroads into the library area. Again 10 years ago we blocked, asks the audience member to bring pictures to the Board, this absent tenant from converting Nelson's (33-35 Third Street) to a four unit. The place is a dump. When Nelson sold it, they left it with trees all over the entire lot. He had a fish pond with bubbling water surrounded by flowers. That home was on the North Andover to see tour. Look at it now, it is a disgrace to the area. Look at it again and imagine is that how 45 Third Street will end up, worse than the non-confirming project being proposed. Third Street demolition start up doesn't exude community confidence. The refuge being scattered for over two weeks, ask an audience member to bring pictures to the Board. The Chair asks if he is getting close to end John Lyons states he will hurry up. The various neighbors are now concerned that this does indicate a lack of concern for safety and security. He speaks of environmental pollution, light pollution, recurrent sound pollution. He states that 45 Third Street will have garage light, path lights, home lights, car lights coming and going all happening 24/7. There are no shields on the four corners on their property to redirect glare. The sound emanating from the street is compounded. There is no sound shield, traffic passing 24/7. The Chair states he needs to wrap it up. John Lyons—He talks about the Applicant's current address and what would happen if a development would be proposed for that area. A. Jacobs— sir can you keep it focused on the application at hand and not other properties M. Lis—You really can't talk about other properties, I want to be very clear that we do not use previous ones as precedent A. Jacobs— sir you need to listen to the Chair ZBA Minutes for April 8,2025 Page 8 of 21 Town of North Andover ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS M. Lis—we don't work as a court of law, we don't work on a system of precedence, this approval or not approval will not be used to determine the next one and is not determined by the previous one, so we really can't be discussing John Lyons—I understand fully, but I thought you want to hear the inputs from the people and I thought you wanted some advice M. Lis—Absolutely and you have gone for long enough that I think it is time to give someone else a turn and there was another gentleman right behind you who you had pushed aside to be able to talk and I want to make sure he has a chance to speak John Lyons—He talks about the Lake shoreline in the 1970s and the town suffering the loss of a deeply related long lasting variance battle restricting developers from building houses to close the lake shoreline. The zoning at the border and a good distance back from the shore and deep into the watershed. The outcome was horrific giardia epidemic an expensive water treatment, The audience is speaking, the Board asks them to be quiet. John Lyons—and a forfeiture of personal public worth. No longer could we claim that North Andover had the best drinking water in the state. As a result of that too the town is starting to purchase land to save it, you know as that natural greenland. Again we are facing another zoning battle bordering the shores of the library area, the town's second greatest asset. Spearing for this assemblage of neighbors and fellow citizens they represent. We ask the board again to help preserve this current well throughout zoning and push back this entrepreneurial sprawl. Thanks. Erik Swirsky 1109 Herrick Road approaches the podium. He is not an abutter and is asked to speak after the abutters are heard. Amy Almerico-LeCair—25 Dudley Street, I am an abutter. She can see 45 Third Street from her front door. She purchased the property in December of 2020. It is a pink Victorian. She and her wife came before the board to request a variance for the in-law suite that the previous owner, Gayle Apkarian had created for her mother and where my father now lives. They came before the Board then and part of the reason she learned about the zoning and the bylaws, is that they were allowed to have that because it met the rules of who can live in an in-law apartment but also because it was approved it maintained the character of the house. I believe we should create more housing in our town, I believe we have a housing crisis, I do not believe jamming units into a lot like this in a very densely populated residential area is the answer. I have 3 small children, Dudley Street is a small street. We chose this house, this neighborhood, this community and this would fundamentally alter the character of it. We already have a problem with the number of cars on Dudley Street, an additional curb cut and up to 10 parking spaces for a potential of 10 cars, that is a huge influx to the area and I just want to say that as an abutter I am not in favor of this project. ZBA Minutes for April 8,2025 Page 9 of 21 Town of North Andover ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Ruth Ann Mooradkanian— 54 Third Street is at the podium. Her family moved to the historic Oscar Godfrey house immediately after the Godfrey's shortly after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 and America entered World War 11. Her family has lived there for generations right across the street from 45 Third. I respectfully urge this board to deny the variance for the following reasons. Two words I would like to leave with you tonight crossroads and honor and remember. She speaks of crossroads where decisions have to be made. 45 Third Street sits at the intersection of Third and Maple in the historic library district. She points out you have to look carefully at the situation from all angles and ask two key questions: where do I stand but more importantly in what direction am I heading and you need to ask counsel from wise and experienced people because in the multitude of counselors there is wisdom. We are all at a crossroads tonight. On short notice the developer, Ryan Grasso, is requesting a special permit of variance of 45 Third Street, into what? A neighborhood of historic homes built in the 1800s and 1900s and you want to turn it into potentially a commercial zone. We have a choice to make. Do we honor and remember our historic roots or do we tear down and destroy forever the legacy that's been handed down to us. Like my neighbors we have all preserved and protected the heritage handed down to us from the North Andover historic families. We have preserved this historic character of our house and this property ever since. We as a town must stand united to preserve and protect our town's historical heritage. If we don't, who will? She speaks of honoring and remembering the noble men and women who went before us and historical roots. If the foundations are destroyed what will law abiding people do, will future generations look upon us as being unselfish seeking to preserve what is good and noble even as they look upon us as interested only in money. She asks the developer how he would like to be remembered, for preserving the beauty and historic character of North Andover or for seeking his own financial gain. I trust that this Zoning Board of Appeals wants to preserve the historic character of our town. Let us leave a legacy of beauty and honor for the generations to come. Let us pas the torch onto the next generation. I respectfully request that the Zoning Board of Appeals deny this variance on 45 Third Street. Thank you. M. Lis—Any other abutters who wish to come up and speak. Ed Keisling—9 Dudley Street is at the podium. I am an abutter. I have a question for the developer. On the plan, addressing the developer. The Chair states he can't address the Applicant directly he has to ask his questions to the Board and they will get the answers. Ed Keisling—It was unclear for me in terms of what was submitted as to whether or not the existing single family home was going to be converted to two families in addition to the three R. Grasso—it will remain a single unit ZBA Minutes for April 8,2025 Page 10 of 21 Town of North Andover ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Ed Keisling—the second question is—maybe this is for the Board is there a reason or a loophole that we need to understand as a neighborhood as to why all the properties are connected A. Jacobs— so a three family by definition is to be connected, so if they are not connected they are now single individual units Ed Keisling—so then it would not be allowable M. Lis— so then they would have to be put into different lots A. Jacobs—unless there would be an ADU Ed Keisling—I'm not for this project but I think that is my concern which is that any lot or any yard that is in that neighborhood at this point becomes ripe for development, in terms of, I just need to connect it in some way and I can build as many houses as possible on that lot. A. Jacobs— I think our Chair made it pretty abundantly clear that the Zoning Board does not go based off of precent. So the Zoning Board can have two different applications that are essentially requesting the same thing and the decision can be different for both. So there is not a precedent set. So if the Board were to vote to approve this and the neighbor located at the next intersection would try to do the same thing they might not get it. It think just like some of the neighbors had mentioned people had tried to convert in the past and they did not get it, other people have tried to convert in the past and have gotten it passed. So there is no precedent set. I think the Chair made that pretty clear. L. Craig-Comin—it doesn't obligate any future A. Jacob— so a decision made tonight does not set the stepping stone for every single large piece of land to have three families connected in this design. This would be specific to this application, which is how it has always been at the Zoning Board and I think any chair will tell you that Ed Keisling—Thank you. I respectfully request that the board deny this application on the basis of it as presented M. Lis—Thank you sir. Are there any more, we got at least one more. Is there any more abutters that would like to come speak. All right sir Gayle Apkanian is at the podium— 19- 21 Dudley Street—I am an abutter. She states her house is a fabulous two family Philadelphia style and it's lovely. She objects and is not going to go over it. The Board has a letter from her and she doesn't want to reiterate any other points. They lived on High Street 28 years, and we moved to Dudley Street because the traffic on High Street was just becoming unmanageable. They developed Dudley into a gorgeous, beautiful work of art. They remodeled the carriage house, they kept the integrity of everything in keeping with the town, the street and the property itself. They worked so hard and spent so much money to make that happen and it really is a gorgeous work of art. It enhanced the street and the neighborhood. I've just preserved the integrity of the outside, I haven't done any development and I don't intend to. My son lives upstairs I referenced in the letter, he has special needs. He ZBA Minutes for April 8,2025 Page 11 of 21 Town of North Andover ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS lives up there with help, I'm downstairs. I am concerned with the traffic that exists and more traffic that would exist, especially who knows who is coming out of Dudley Street onto there. My son walks around town so for that very reason I'm super concerned about this development. Please deny the request. Thank you. M. Lis—all right, sir you have been very patient, thank you. Erik Swirsky is back at the podium— 1190 Herrick Road So as I said I might not align with some of the people in this room. I am in favor of this development. I think it is a good location, I think the building is clearly in need of some work and you know they put it up for S850 and then you've got repairs and renovations on top of that, that's expensive for a single family home, especially in this economy, so if they want to turn it into a multi-family unit a block away from downtown where the businesses need foot traffic, I don't really see an issue that. That's all I have to say. M. Lis—Thank you sir. Is there anyone else who would like to speak up as part of public comment. Someone from the audience is speaking M. Lis—you need to come up to the microphone sir to ask, unfortunately just because we are broadcast Two people approach the podium A. Jacobs— sir I would sit back down because this gentleman was walking up and you have already had a turn M. Lis—afterwards I will permit you to as a question Adam Bagni—92 Colonial Avenue is at the podium. I have no relation to this project whatsoever, I am just a resident and have no relation to the abutters, no relation to the folks that are applying. What I will tell you is that I am a commissioner in the North Andover Housing Authority I will tell you that these A. Jacobs—hold on Adam Bagni—I am not here spearing on their behalf, I'm speaking as a housing advocate and I will tell you that 3 units is not going to solve the housing crisis in Massachusetts. I thought this was a good opportunity to come down here and make a broader point for all of you and that is we need this Board badly. The Lieutenant Governor was here in town a couple of weeks ago and she was talking about how do we solve this severe, massive, statewide housing crisis and we don't do it by building a thousand unit giant buildings because that just not what's going to happen in Massachusetts, we do it by building 20 by building 30, by building 50, by building 3, by building 12, so I'd ask you all to consider that when you are not just considering this application,but when you are considering any application relating to housing that comes before you. We really need it. One thing that these you know folks that are against these projects typically argue and ZBA Minutes for April 8,2025 Page 12 of 21 Town of North Andover ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS understandably right, change is worrisome for a lot of people especially when it is close to home, but a lot of the arguments are the same old stereotypical arguments and those are it's going to ruin the character of our neighborhood. Our house is going to go down in value that for some reason the people that move into these units are going to be a danger to our neighborhood and there really is no statistical evidence whatsoever that any of that is the fact. So I just wanted to point that out. What there is statistical evidence though is that we are in a severe, serious statewide housing crisis. We are only tallying about 3 units here and I don't encourage to decline this project, I don't have a position, but what I will tell you is that we really,really need this Board to do everything you can to add housing units here in North Andover. I have lived in town for 4 years, the value of my house has gone up about S350,000, great for me, not great for my kids, not good for my grandkids, not good for my neighbors who can't afford it, not good for my parents who want to downsize. So I just ask you to consider that. I appreciate everything that you guys do as a volunteer board. Thank you. Someone approaches the podium addressing Adam Bagni, who has left the meeting M. Lis—Excuse me sir, let me be very clear that we don't address each other. Joe Venuti— 19 Milton Street - I am an abutter is at the podium. He bought the house in 2003. I have pictures of buses and people parked on the wrong side of the road because they are trying to pick up their kids and they are creating an unsafe situation there. So that last talk A. Jacobs—no M. Lis—please Joe Venuti—You have to see the traffic pattern there when school is getting out and the way people are behaving and that's not even talking about the speed that's going down Third Street with people rushing down that road and now we are not even talking about Conte, it is a very congested area already and it has been for awhile and everybody here is aware of that, so please take that into consideration. M. Lis—All right, thank you sir. Joe Cavallaro— 12 Milton Street, is back at the podium. I just want to oppose what the person who just made a statement and left, unfortunately he's not here, nobody in this room referenced anything about the type of people that would occupy these units, nothing was said about the type A. Jacobs—we understand that we are all listening to all of it Joe Cavallaro—this is being recorded I just wanted to make that statement. The other thing is he didn't reference the rate of unoccupied units at Avalon and the turnover rate at some of these properties, I am a builder, I build large multi-residential units, my company builds 100% ZBA Minutes for April 8,2025 Page 13 of 21 Town of North Andover ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS affordable housing I know of the turnover, I know of the open units so his statement was not totally accurate. Thank you. M. Lis—Mr. Lyons you had a question. I want to make sure that you have a chance, because I did promise you John Lyons is back at the podium—A question what is the total square footage floor wise in the old house A. Jacobs— so questions are directed to the Board M. Lis—ask us all of your questions and we will get an answer John Lyons—asks his question again—in the single house, the current house then I want to know what the current square footage is for the 3 additions are including the breezeways and including also the garages M. Lis—well according to the listing that was provided on Exhibit C if it is the accurate listing from when the house was sold, the square footage is 2,812 and that is from the document that was provided for the original house John Lyons—how about the cumulative square footage M. Lis—Attorney Vaughan can you help us out A. Jacobs— are there any additional questions while they work on figuring it out John Lyons—yes, the gentleman who talked before thought it would be a great idea if they were proposing an accessory dwelling unit I mean to me that's a wonder, I mean that is what the Governor pursued, it's being used for good purposes, it's not a major disruption to the community, you can really build that and put it in that is a total conformity with the house, to me it's not providing thousands of little houses and motels, it's every individual maybe adding one room, God I've got that, I've got an in-law apartment, I have provided it for my mother-in-law, I provided it for several young couples who had no other place to go, I think that should be his intention. Now I'm asking you about the square footage,because as I understand the law on these individual units, the unit you add, the square footage cannot exceed the square footage on the main house M. Lis—Under what circumstances John Lyons—rule A. Jacobs— for what John Lyons—If you want to add an individual unit M. Lis—are you talking about an accessory dwelling unit John Lyons—yes ZBA Minutes for April 8,2025 Page 14 of 21 Town of North Andover ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS M. Lis—for an accessory dwelling unit it has completely different rules and it would have to be substantially smaller than the house, it would also be by right and would not be in front of this board at all A. Jacobs— so he would make it look like any design, looks like he has pretty good intentions, I'm just saying that might be a nice compromise. Attorney Vaughan—adding up the total on the plan 8,285 square feet L. Craig-Comin—Total with the existing unit Attorney Vaughan—that was the total of all three units M. Lis—all 3 combined, that's about 200 then for the additions M. Lis—that is sufficient for us. Thank you. I understand that they will have to come back. Are there any other comments from the public before I open it back up to questions from the Board. Do you guys have any responses that you would like to make specific to those comments Attorney Vaughan—there are lots of comments that I could make, there were certain things that were said about how long people have been in town, I don't care if you have been in this town for a week or 80 years, I think you are entitled to the same respect and the same property rights as anyone else that is a resident of the town. I can say for a fact that my client has the best of intentions, there was a lot of talk about large Victorians and he was intentionally trying to design something that was tasteful, if you look at the actual plan submitted they are very consistent with the neighborhood, there was a lot of talk about denying the variance, obviously we are looking for a special permit, not a variance. It seems to me that a lot of people were perhaps really talking about a zoning change as opposed to compliance with zoning which is exactly what we are doing. It could go on forever, I think what we are probably most interested in and what I would like the rest of this discussion to evolve into is how can we make the project better, more appealing. There was no discussion about what someone would rather see, it was just we don't want you doing anything on your property, and that is not what property rights are about, that's not what the zoning bylaw is about and that's not what we are here for, so I know Ryan is very interested in designing something that is aesthetically pleasing and fits with the neighborhood. One other major issue people were taking about was traffic, Conte's, St. Michael's School, that's an existing condition that no one is going to change. If you want to talk about traffic we are talking about 2 additional units, probably four additional cars, making 4-6 trips a day, it's de minimis, it's going to have no impact. I am again very interested in what you think. He's willing to take another stab at designing something that is maybe more appealing. M. Lis—I know we will need to have a continuance because of the aforementioned discussion about the driveways, but I would like to give the Board an opportunity if they have any questions or comments that they would feel would be necessary for theirs to take into that continuance, so that we don't have to continue too many more times. ZBA Minutes for April 8,2025 Page 15 of 21 Town of North Andover ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS M. Lis—I'm serious, if folks have questions or things that they want to raise now is a good time because if we can fold it into the next meeting that way we can have the fewest of these possible, I think it would be in the best interest of everyone L. Craig—Comin—agreed A. Jacobs— So I will throw my 2 cents out first and it won't be 20 minutes, so you are lucky. I will say this, I think whether you are doing 3 units or 5 units,you are going to increase the cars, so you are not going to eliminate that aspect, if you want to go 2 or 3 units. I think one of the biggest problems for me is that I get why you are connecting it. You need to connect it,but let's be real about what this is, this is 3 single family homes on one lot. (clapping) I don't need the clapping, I think if you want to be able to have two or three units it needs to be something that is fitting in with the character more, and I think fitting in with the character more is like what you've heard. There are very large Victorians. You drive down headed to the middle school and there are huge gorgeous Victorian homes, I don't know if all of these are single family or if they are multifamily to be honest with you,but on the face of it, it looks like a single family home, so whether that's adding on to what's there and then maybe doing your third unit in the back, does this eliminate the neighbors in terms of cars and parking and traffic, no it doesn't but I sit here and say find a compromise and in this the compromise, your getting your 3 units, maybe not to the fullest extent that you want and they are getting something that looks more like the character. I will be honest this as much as you try and I get it you are not going to make this look like it fits in with the way it's designed. But a larger, and the neighbors might not like this, but a larger style Victorian where you have one unit on this side, one unit on that side, one in the back, then maybe your parking or your garage coming in from Dudley, I think you might get a little bit more agreeanle on that. Ryan Grasso—so it would be a larger structure in other words creating more mass right and we were trying to be respectful of more green space and patios and outdoor space A. Jacobs—Like I say you might not make everybody happy, but I think this looks like 3 individual homes shoved on one lot and I don't think you are going to be able to make it look like, going toward the middle school there are huge homes and yes some of them might have larger green space and you might give up some of that Ryan Grasso—we are agreeable to compromise and some ideas A. Jacobs— I think kind of jumping around different ideas of how you can, if you are really adamant on your 3 units how can you make it look like 1 structure that's my 2 cents, but I'm one person on this Board L. Craig-Comin —that is what I gathered also M. Lis—any other folks that want to chime in with thoughts or questions M. Rutherford—so being new I had a question on the reference for the permit, subsection A is achieve compatibility with the rest of the pattern of the uses in the district and I echo that as presented it doesn't seem to fit that, and as presented by the neighborhood that it is out of ZBA Minutes for April 8,2025 Page 16 of 21 Town of North Andover ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS character with the neighborhood. So my question was to more procedurally how much does that impact the conversation that we have M. Lis— so the answer there is that we have a lot of leeway, so the reason that a special permitting process exists, is for us to be able to use our subjective judgment so that essentially means that we get to set the terms of that discussion, there are lots of different ways that you can construct one, two or three units in that shape property and we can exert some influence in terms of what we want and it is really a subjective opinion, there is not a chart of rules that we necessarily have to go by in selecting those rules M. Rutherford—thank you for the clarification, as it stands, I don't believe what has been presented fits what I can support because of the uniqueness of the neighborhood that is in no way saying that can't be adjusted that as written here I cannot support what has been presented and due to an error you have that opportunity to go back with a continuance and denies you nothing and continues the conversation. M. Lis—Mr. Testa—do you have anything. J. Testa—yes I'll echo what Alex said about the 3 separate units, three separate houses. I'm almost wondering if you divided the lot in some way two lots keeping the main house and then that parcel that goes form Dudley to Main, Dudley to Third similar to the house to the left of it L. Craig-Comin—they don't quite have the square footage for it. M. Lis—yea J. Testa—No I agree, but if you were to divide that lot, that lot is very similar to the lot that is to the left of it, and the corner lot would be very similar A. Jacobs—the zoning has changed since J. Testa—I get that I'm just saying it could be two units, not 3 units M. Lis—but in terms of a way to orient the structure, you can think of it in terms of that as well J. Testa—Right M. Lis— so I think all of these are reasonable statements. I think one additional thing that I do want to stress as Mr. Bagni said earlier, we do have a housing crisis and when we think about way to address that what gets built most of the time in these communities are large complexes are large 200-300 unit buildings and a good chunk of the reason why that happens that way is that towns like ours don't have zoning for anything that is in the middle. They don't have zoning that allows for five units, six units, seven units and the result is then that if you are going to go to that town and ask to build something you need to ask for a lot to make it happen, you need to ask for a big high density complex and for understandable reasons people don't love this because it's a big structure that is obvious it is usually near a busy road and it creates a big structure and so what everybody says is that what we need is what they call the missing middle. We need similar units that are able to mix in better with a residential community. I would encourage folks to think about ZBA Minutes for April 8,2025 Page 17 of 21 Town of North Andover ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS what it mean to have that because, we all say that we don't want the big structure but what it means is that then your community that has single family homes and duplexes is going to have a triplex or a quad or five units and that necessitates some level of change to make it so that it is not that big structure that you really don't want or that many people really don't want. So that is my stepping on the soapbox as I get to do as Chair A. Jacobs—real quick, Attorney Vaughan, look at Furber Ave, when I'm talking a bigger structure, I'm not talking Furber Ave, and if you are not familiar with Furber Ave, I know you can figure it out, but that is not what I'm talking about. Attorney Vaughan—duly noted Kathleen Stagno— 14 Edmonds Road is at the podium. She grew up on Third Street. Her father is John Lyons who is very passionate about this project. There is a lot of nostalgia involved but and I won't reiterate this I am concerned if it gets down to one lane with Conte's it's a very busy corner. I'm a huge proponent of affordable housing, I know there is a housing crisis but project is ridiculously large and it's not affordable. Facing 45 Third Street, the Kirkpatrick's old house, there is a parcel to the left, could that be like a single family home, is there enough set back,you would have to subdivide the lot it has to be connected. A. Jacobs— so one of the problems is that if Mr. Grasso wanted to do that he would have to get approval to divide the lot and then he would have to come back to us without a guarantee because he'd be looking for variances for setbacks because he wouldn't have the set backs and he wouldn't have the acreage that he needs and he'd be missing a lot of things from when that other house was built. Kathleen Stagno—other option, Dudley Street, there is another entrance in the back there, the land goes to the back across from Eddie's house with all the garages is there enough space there? A. Jacobs—you know what I said before you keep going,just because I think this will help, collaboration with developers and neighborhoods can be phenomenal and not only you guys as a neighborhood being able to keep what you love so much but also making that compromise Kathleen Stagno—I think that is important but when people come up and say this is nostalgia you people are ridiculous and walk out it is just really frustrating Kathleen Stagno—could he have a small rental property there above a garage that he can rent and make money off that and make a two family out of the Kirkpatrick's old house and make adjustments to it, it's a big house, it's a beautiful house you could bring the neighborhood back, add a two family rent out a property, but I'm just trying to show you where we are coming from, it's awfully congested down there, I have been going down this road my entire life, it's a huge cut through, St. Mike's every day it's so busy and Conte's, small funerals it's so tight and that corner is so tough and all the neighbors are considerate and they avoid the street when there is a wake. I guess what I'm saying is I don't want to become a bedroom community, I want to be smart about where we put these new housing units, I want people who work hard to be able to afford a place to ZBA Minutes for April 8,2025 Page 18 of 21 Town of North Andover ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS live, but please don't just throw in monstrosities and become a bedroom community. Let's keep the integrity of the town. M. Lis—I think, unless there is any further input from the Board L. Craig-Comin—I'll chime in because I don't think I have. I think what Alex said about talking together is important, I think that collaboration is amazing and it sounds like there's an appetite for it all around, a lot of people have a lot of things to share and the way we prevent our community, no matter how big it gets, no matter how populous or how dense it gets from not being a community anymore is to keep having this conversation. We could have the most Boston downtown esque architecture and still be a community if we still have conversations, so I would really hope that between this and the next meeting people talk to each other, we have a person asking a question. M. Lis—you need to come up to the podium. We require it because everything is on TV Karen Mulcahy—57 Third Street is at the podium. She is next to the lot. She states that 50 years ago there was an owner who had proposed building a small house on that lot, on the side, it was voted down, the abutters didn't want it, that's why that lot is still open and vacant today. She stated that the abutters got a letter from the real estate agent that the developer is using. The Agent sent the abutters a letter stating what he was going to do, five units. I called her and asked if we could have a meeting with Ryan, the abutters want to get together with him in front of the house. She said that sounds perfect, either in front of the house or at her real estate agency. Never heard a word. We wanted to get together with him and see what we could come up with before he presented this plan. We knew nothing about what his ideas were. We went down a week ago to see the drawings and it was like shock. That wasn't what we were thinking, we thought he was going to buy the house for his family, fix it up beautiful, do the landscaping and everyone would be happy and enjoy it. That isn't what we are getting. Even if he took the existing site, made it a two family and beautified the area, we would be happy with that. We tried to meet with him ahead of time and that didn't happen and he had plenty of time to do that. So let's find out a reasonable plan what we can agree to and we'll see what can happen from here, but it's going to congest the neighborhood. Third Street is a drag way coming up from Middlesex. When they go to take that corner, they step on the gas, it's a bad spot and they cut through right to Main Street. That lot was proposed to be built on 50 years ago and they voted it down and said no. M. Lis—I think we are at the point of continuance. Attorney Vaughan—I agree, I would just make one quick comment. Fifty years ago zoning was different and it probably didn't have multi-family under this section, I'm pretty certain that it didn't, so many of those examples are not applicable,but that said, I think the most important thing she said was about trying to collaborate and Ryan is more than willing to try to do that and we will try to do that before the next meeting and would seek a continuance for the opportunity to revise the plans and get something different in front of you for consideration ZBA Minutes for April 8,2025 Page 19 of 21 Town of North Andover ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS A. Jacobs— I would throw in just a little thing because I know this might make a difference in doing redesigning I wouldn't be too freaked out if you are needing like and I'm just speaking for myself, a little bit of a variance in terms of a variance of like two feet on a side setback M. Lis— she doesn't like double digits I don't know if you know that A. Jacobs—my point being is that right now they've kept within all of the setbacks and I don't want them to sit here and be, I don't want them to be afraid that if they restructure it to make it so that it more fitting with the neighborhood they are only going to be 28 feet and they are going to need to have 2 feet and then that's going to be an issue because I think the Board would compromise M. Lis—especially given that this lot is not square so from a lot shape standpoint that is a thing we often consider when looking at variances L. Craig-Comin—when looking at variances hardships are involved in consideration like lot change, lot shape A. Jacobs— I'm trying to make the next meeting very productive L. Craig-Comin—I appreciate that, I really do M. Lis—Do we have a motion to continue A. Jacobs—that is what you guys wanted— addressing the applicant—don't forget about the driveways Attorney Vaughan—all right M. Rutherford—Can we make that a stipulation of continuance M Lis—no L. Craig-Comin—presumably they are keeping track of the things to do M. Lis—we get to still vote it up or down later so we can decide if it's OK M. Rutherford—I just thought that had to be documented L. Craig-Comin—I will make a motion to continue the petition A. Jacobs— I'll second M. Lis—all in favor L. Craig-Comin—don't I have to say that the next meeting is May 20`h M. Lis—I will do a roll call on this; Mr. Testa— aye; Ms. Jacobs—aye; Ms. Craig-Comin, aye; Ms. Rutherford, aye and I'm an aye. All right we will continue to the next meeting. Thank you very much. ZBA Minutes for April 8,2025 Page 20 of 21 Town of North Andover ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Audience starts to exit 5. 40B Correspondence. M. Lis—we are not done here we got one more item just really quickly. This is just an additional note that there is a 40B correspondence from CHI dated January 29, 2025 regarding Orchard Village that is in the documentation for the meeting, we don't need to read it here. 6. Adiournment 9:00 p.m. A. Jacobs— I make a motion to adjourn L. Craig-Comin—seconded M. Lis—I'm going to give it to Frank. All in favor, J. Testa, aye; A. Jacobs, aye, M. Lis, aye; L. Craig-Comin, aye; M. Rutherford, aye ZBA Minutes for April 8,2025 Page 21 of 21